remembered. president obama, if you need a new jingle, i know where you can find one. the correct answer to our gps challenge question was "c." the united states has 11 aircraft carriers. the rest of the world has grand total of ten. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources." the media drumbeat is under way. do or die. can he score, land a big punch, knock out his big opponent in the first of the presidential debate this week? >> if the president does well in the debates, he'll probably win the election. if mitt romney cannot successfully deal with his slander against 47% of the american people, his campaign will die on the spot on that debate stage.

>> but are the pundits overdramatizing the impact of these televised events? what about paul ryan saying this morning the media are rooting for barack obama to win and was it more important for the president to do this -- >> you're very happy that you came on with us, mrs. obama, and brought your date. >> i brought him. he had a few minutes in his schedule. >> i told folks i'm just supposed to be eye candy for you guys. >> -- than to meet with world leaders at the u.n. how do comedians come up with precisely the right way to mock to politicians and others? >> we have a very different plan on how to offer tax relief. >> thanks for spending a few moments with us. you, sir, are great. >> thank you. >> a conversation with daryl hammond. plus the media krieled foul

again and again and again when an nfl replacement ref blows a big qaa. we'll blow the was on that high decibel coverage. i'm howard kufrt and this is "reliable sources." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com every day it seems the media is finding new reasons for why romney has fallen behind. as politico said the other day, maybe he's a lousy daenlt. someone commented maybe the polls are wrong. >> ed, do you buy this into this theory, look, mainstream media is going to talk down -- >> we have a no whining rule in boston oi about that.

>> the debates on wednesday is his last shot. joining me, anna marie cox, politic political columnist for the guardian. and in new york editor of thomson reuters digital. the debates, very important. mass audience, no question about it. but are the media guilty of giving the impression that one candidate or the other could score a big knockout? >> well, i think it's natural for us in the media to really focus on the debates because it's something on the diary, it's something that we can all cover and prepare for. having said that, i think this debate is really, really important for a couple of reasons. one is we are given chance. this is rare opportunity to see the two candidates on the same stage facing the same questions, so i think that it's a very

valuable and sort of increasingly rare in the american political and media discourse chance to see them side by side. that'sing are important. >> no question about that, anna marie cox but the pundits love to score it for gaffes and who looked at his watch and that sort of thing but how often do they really live up to the drama? >> hardly ever. as far as i can tell. romney has a lot to risk going in, a lot to lose going in. most of the time debates don't move the media that much. actually content matters. everything we want to talk about probably isn't as important as what that felt like to the people he was talking about. if he makes that same kind of statement, i'm not going to even call it gaffe. if he makes that same kind of a statement, that won't matter. i actually think -- they're

apparently practicing zingers on people and whatnot. >> i'm shocked to hear that. i thought everything was spontaneously and well reherred. are the media raising expectations too high for him because he's behind in the swing states and all that we're going to stay if he holds his open against an incumbent president, that's not good enough? >> i think there's way too much commentary in that vein. look, i think a fair reading of the polls averaged out. romney is behind but it's not an overwhelming gap. this isn't his last shot. >> we're terrible. don't watch sniet was on fox news sunday earlier this morn and anchor chris wallace asked hill about the media coverage of this campaign. >> do you think the mainstream

media is carrying water for barack obama? i think it kind of goes without saying that there is definitely a media bias. >> because the mainstream media wants barack obama to win? >> no, what do you think. >> i thing they want a left of center president versus a conservative president like mitt romney. >> chrystia, what do you think about that? >> what is the maybestream media? a lot of people watch fox. is fox now the mainstream media? i think the bigger question really is the media is really polarized and that is why coming back to the debate point, that's why i think it's an interesting opportunity because we can see the two sides. i think if you watch fox, which a lot of people do, i think you're watching media that's rooting for ryan and romney and if you're watching nbc, you're

watching media that's rooting for obama. >> the implication there from congressman ryan is they mere in the tank too. >> well, you've been doing this for lock enough you know this main critique about media bias is not about the predelikzs of reporters. it's about the reason for coverage. we're talking about the zingers that get said. also i tlink is a cultural bias toward obama among journalists. i think that mitt romney's inability to kind of connect with people, you can put journalists in that category as well. >> do you want to jump in? >> i would say there's a bias on a the part of a lot of them. i think that it would be very hard to device somebody who's more culturally alien to the

culture of most press rooms than a mormon businessman. >> light. >> so if you look at the sunday morning papers, "washington post" has a big headline, romney's money trap. new york times has a big front page story about how he was more moderate on energy issues and green and so forth. is that a cultural bias? >> ka i answer that. >> >> ggo ahead. >> this is something that's actually mystifying to me and says something interesting about america. it's interesting to me that american voters find barack obama, son of a kenyan, raced a all over the place, indonesia, hawaii, more relatable than a mormon businessman. since when did being a white strish, businessman, conservativeman be an

unbelievable man to the american people. >> >> i was talking about journalists. >> that seems to be be something reflected in the polls. people find romney a hard guy to be to have. >> journalists would be frightened. being a businessman is not a particular type of thing. he's not running a mom and pop store who built a business that sold things. he moved money around for a living and i think being in finance and not being in the making and selling business, that's a big difference. that's hard to understand for normal everyday americans and that's the kind of bias we see because that's what played a part in the crumb bling of our

economy. >> this is a serious charge. you're suggesting because the average boy or girl on the bus doesn't relate to rom i in, most of them are not mormon or come from the world of finance or have a hard time relating, that they're letting that influence the way they cover him as a presidential candidate when we do have to point out here he's made a lot of miss stanges which should, of course brks covered. >> i'm not denying that but i do thifrmgt certain candidates don't get the positive coverage. i think that that personal december like doesn't help. al gore dealt with some of those same things, being seen as stiff, wasn't friendly to them and i just think that does -- whether or not the reporters are trying, i think it colors the coverage. >> i think it's more about personality with regard to politics and paul ryan is the

best example. thanks to the real vivid finance his message and also how he conveys it, i think he's had pretty fabulous treatment in the press and maybe actually a lack of scrutiny of what he's saying. >> i'm going to call a halt here because i want to talk about paul ryan in the next segment. i want to extend this conversation about bias because some conservative commentators are extending it in a way i don't normally see in presidential campaigns. let's roll that. >> all right. we have a not so surprising discoverry according to polls. >>purpose of it, doing the polls, they're trying to make polls, not reflect it. they're advancing in agenda. they're all democrats, all liberals. >> okay, ramesh, they're all bias? >> no. i think if you average them out

it shows obama had. i do think you can make a reasonable crick teak of some of the polls that show obama with a large lead because they also show a much more democratic electorate than we normally see. >> that's fine. and, of course, the fox news polls has it. >> exactly. and there's a practical response to this. which is why would we want to be wrong, why would we put out polls that in the end show us to be incorrect. the best measure of a poll would be to to create them. why would we create these polls that would screw up the analysis. >> meanwhile the talk show campaign continues, the president and his wife going on "the view." mitt romney and his wife appearing in the next couple of weeks. let's take a look. >> i can make a man. i'm one of the few people. >> how do you make a man? >> any number of ways. >> am i being fairly unreason

snoobl you're in new york where all the leaders gathered. president obama said he didn't have time to meet any of them. went on "the view," took some criticism for that, is that a fair shot when we're five or six week as i way. >> i think it sort of misses the point. my personal view on what happened that day is there was some deft maneuvering by the president to avoid getting involved in the whole israel/iran debate. it's very, very dangerous for him in terms of foreign policy and in terms of the electorate and i think they made a decision it was better to be criticized for being superficial than to riflk dangerous or uncontrollable sound bites coming out of those meetings. >> quick thoughts? >> combined with the avoidance of four leaders, we're going to

have a president after election day. >> i agree. it's easier to go on "the view." >> mitt romney said whoopi goldberg was pretty president tough. you know, there's a little bit among some of the establishment press of looking down their collective noses at letterman, leno, the view, "the daily show," why do the candidates waste their time talking the fluffy stuff. everybody uses the sound bites and the clips. romney talking about snooki. asking what you wear to bed, imagining -- i won't even go there. everybody feasts on that stuff and they derive it both days. i don't think there's a problem going on the programs. that's where they live. they don't all watch cable news all the time. when we come back, remember

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frustration that instead of you changing romney, you've heard this, that they feel that romney is changing you and you're running a much more cautious campaign. >> mitt romney has never once asked me to temper anything down. he said to go out there and sell this. >> a na marie cox, is he a successful running mate? >> we'll all see when ryan gets his own fox news reality show after this or reality show and fox show. >> maybe he'll be living in the vice-presidential mansion. >> maybe. >> is it true that he could have totally turned around the campaign and turned things around? >> they're aking as though the number two should be driving the campaign and that's just not the way it works. >> he could go rogue.

>> picking ryan implied a strategy of making a stark choice, making it an ideological contest and there hasn't been so much follow-through. so think it's been a little puzzling as to what romney's campaign strategy has been over the last few months. >> chrystia freeland, there was a lot of talk when romney made his pick, that it was a bold selection to make the campaign about big issues, medicare and energized the base. but now it seems to be none of that happened and it was not -- maybe it was a pick that hurt the ticket. >> so i totally agree with ramesh here. i think that the ryan pick actually represented the romney campaign being a little bit spooked. partly spooked by people like us, the sort of punditocracy. >> i didn't know we had that much power. >> we seem to. i think up to that point romney

was running a very disciplined campaign whose focus was pragmatism and managerial excellent and the romney pick said actually we're ideologues as well. and what i think we're seeing now is the romney campaign saying, no, no, we're about managerialism and pragmatics. >> i think the managerial and pragmatism is the only place for him to be. that's what's authentic about him. i think he ooh going to bin or loose on that battlefield and i think if he deviated from it. , that's going to cause iffyness. >> he has relationships with these people. it circles back to the conversation about media bias which is if the campaign is zigging and zagging, then it's not the case of jirnlts who point this out.

>> i don't disagree with that. thing the objective things one would cover negatively or skeptically that there's something in addition. look. the first campaign i covered was the bob dole campaign. totally hopeless campaign. yet there was less of a medial drumbeat saying it was all over in mid-september than there was for the romney ryan campaign this year. >> final thought. >> i think chrystia, that they got spooked. sometimes i feel like the romney campaign is trying to win the press over. >> don't listen to the geniuses in the medial room. chrysa freeland, ramesh ponnuru and ana marie cox sfwhie is he

hard. >> he's an eloquent man with perfect speech. >> live to tame from new york, my sitdown with darld hammond. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. heaven on your palate." in other heavenly news, all our yoplait light flavors

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with the presidential debates kicking off in denver, i'll be headed o it in a couple of ways, i'm reminded how people gather around the country to watch darrell hammond. >> i happen to agree with governor bush and i agree with him for it. let me add something -- let me add something in my plan. the lock box would also be camouflaged. >> i'm here tonight to make a very exciting announcement, and even though i'm not supposed to say anything, i can't help myself. after the holiday, barack obama will officially appoint me husband to the secretary of state. >> you mean he will appoint hillary to the secretary of state. >> say it however you want to say it, seth. i am honored.

>> nobody has quite that magic touch. which races the question, just how does he do it? i sat down with him in new york. darrell hammond, william. >> yes, sir. >> i appreciate the way you try to capture public figures. how does it work? could you do mitt romney now or is he not ready for prime time? >> he's probably getting ready if he needs already. it seems like leading up to the election, three, four, five weeks out up until the debate you see them doing things that coaches have not told them to do and actually being human beings so we get a sense of how they walk and talk and gesture and give as chance to play the guy. >> so if they're just doing talking points and speeches or they go like this, you need something more that you can caricatu caricature, something that's unique to their persona. >> yes because i think these guys use coaches, which is odd to me. the less coached you are, the

more natural you are. the more natural you are the more personal you are. the more personal you are, the more genuine you are. marco rubio and others are great examples of that. in term ofts style they did try to have style. they stood there and spoke and appear to be moved about their topics when you're talking to the faithful has pretty pleasing results. everybody remembers your al gore impersonation. did it take you a well to be able to do that? >> with we went to comedy for a year to watch this guy with a southern advice. it's like trying to do bob costas. he was like, why aren't you doing me? nice guy, does well, nothing there. >> he wanted you tow do it. >> he came up to me on hbo.

i don't do great costas. i do a good one. he comes up to me. this is what e he said. you've got the great couple. you've got the great clinton, you've got the great gore, but you can't do me. you tried to do me and you failed utterly. then he takes a piece of paper o oust his pocket and he signs it and he hands it to me. he goes, here, try doing that. i go thought -- we've had a running gage over the years about it. i'm very fond of him. >> what was the breakthrough with gore. >> you know, we did three weekend updates the year before in dress rehearsal and got nothing because there's no hook. it was the first debate. >> and in that first debate -- >> in the first debate he came off as a school teacher talking down to children. >> i think this is very important moment for our country. we have achieved extraordinary prosperity, and in this election america has to make an important choice. >> that's a wonderful endorsement and i want to thank you for it.

>> jim, governor bush and i have two very different plans to offer tax release to american families. and his plan the wealthiest 1% of americans would receive nearly 50% of benefits. >> now bill clinton, you must have been ready to do on the first day. you must not have needed a bunch of stuff. >> there was something about him that bothered me the second i saw him. usually when that happens it was the speaker himself. it was the illogical places he put commas. >> i come before you tonight not to talk about the running the country but specifically to address this huge document that the lawyers for paula jones have

made so graciously available to the media. my fell low americans, i have read this thing cover to cover and, folks, it's good stuff. >> i would hasten to add the greatest speakers would fail a college oral interpretation class. you have coaches tellinging them don't do this, don't do that, but that's not what mother nature is telling them to do and when mother nature does it, it works better, you know, it seems to me. >> sadly you don't have the look for barack obama. why is he hard to capture? >> he's an elegant man with perfect speech. >> speaks in paragraph. >> yeah. >> comedian kmooed dondon't lik >> it's not easy to do if the person is doing all the things

his coaches tell him to do and as you get closer to the convention, the glare of the presidential spotlight just breaks them down and they say something or do something. >> i, of course, like when you turn yourd talents on media people and you seem to have a great time doing chris matthews and he seems to enjoy being done by you. >> you said about five words and i'm already bored to death. >> what is it about matthews that is so easily lampooned? >> well first of all, he's got a great voice. again, you know, this guy, you put him in an oral interpretation class in college, they're going to flunk him. you can't talk like that. cronkite, peter jennings, dan raktsers, let's break it down. >> those are straight news anchors. chris is an opinion guy. >> okay. that's a good point. but the point is he's utterly

himself and he's interesting as hell. >> so tell me what it is about his voice and mannerisms that les you do him. >> well, people are famous for things they say and how they say them. he's famous for both. he's pretty outspoken. >> he's outspoken. he asks a question, he answers it and then -- he's a secret suck set. how come you don't do in ebb from fox? i'd love to see you do o'reilly. >> the time ran out on the fox people. if they wanted, i would do it. >> you've written a candid book about your life. why did you leave "saturday night live"? it seem liked a nice perch.

>> i think after my second stalker, i thought, it doesn't just affect me, it affects my family. i was tired of -- it's trying to strike a chord on the violin with the nypd walking in front of you. who cares. i don't want that anymore. >> you wanted to recede from the spotlight. >> yeah, didn't want do anymore. >> but you're still trying to make people laugh. >> a little. not much. >> so here's final thing i want to get your thoughts on which is we're in a campaign now where barack obama was on david letterman and letterman talked about seeing him naked and then mitt romney was on kelly ripa and they talked about how mump do you wear to bed, not much, that ire on all these shows, "the view," talking about snooki. is it now where we've reached the point that to be president one has to be funny and

entertaining? >> maybe. clinton's funny. obama's funny. if you recall, george bush jr. was quite funny too. >> he was great. he went on oprah. >> he was very funny and very good thinking on his feet. >> so they're doing more like what do you and i'm thinking how are they going to stand up to vladimir putin, not how they going to stand up to whoopi goldberg. >> i know. what these presidents and presidential candidates go through is impossible to conceive. i mean you get the presidential daily briefing when you get in office and like being questioned, you said in toledo 16 days ago, you know. >> and then you have to go on leno and be funny. >> you kind of do now, yeah. i mean it's the way it is. you know, the thing about comedy is that when you give a punch line, the audience has to believe the premise of your joke in order to laugh at them. you can't educate an audience and make them laugh at the same

time. so when a guy goes on tv and crack as joke and the audience laughs, that means they believe in his premise. in this cyber age it's a way of getting news. what happens. >> so this is fascinating. it's not just thaz the politician has to be funny but he has to have the aud yensz with him in order to make the joke work. if you are funny, you're a successful candidate, bingo. >> it mean you have a great set. or you crushed it as we say downtown. >> or you had very good joke writers. >> yes, sir. >> darrell hammond. >> thank you, sir. >> interesting footnote. current tv's coverage will be anchored by a man who knows something about these high-stakes encounters, al gore, the co-founder of the network who famously lost to george w. bush will be front and center as he was during current's coverage of the democratic convention. i'm not expecting a whole lot of

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car chases may become cat nip when it comes to dangers. cnn has a policy of not showing such events live. things took a tragic turn when fox news cut to a car chase in arizona. >> i'm not sure about this. he's getting things out of a vehicle clearly. doesn't appear that there's anybody else with him. well, you know, you wait for the end of these things and you worry about how they may end. there's nobody else around him. this makes me a little nervous, i've got to tell you. get off, get off, get off, get off it. get off it. get off it. >> it was too late. fox stayed with the coverage as the car jacker shot and killed

himself. anchor shepherd smith as you just saw there was upset. >> we created a five-second delay, if you bleeped back five seconds that's what we did with the picture we were showing you so we would see in the studio what was happened five seconds so if anything went horribly wrong we would be able to cut away before we would jikt o you to it. we messed up. that didn't belong on tv. >> good for shep what was obviously a bad decision. michael clemente said fox took every precaution to avoid such a live incident and that, quote, severe human error was to blame. maybe it's time for all television news, that includes you, local stations, to swear off these whose news value is limited unless you're more concerned with grabbing eyeballs

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it was perhaps no bigger story this week at a time when world leaders gathered at the u.n., whelp the presidential campaign heated up, when barack obama and michelle obama went on "the view," the headlines seemed to be all about this. the replace managements, the calls that had football fans across the country howling at the nfl to bring back the professional referees. >> and now we move onto football and the split-second call that had everyone up in arms today. another apparent mistake by nfl officials has set off a new firestorm of chris sichl. yes, a blown call somehow turned into a cacophony of media things for days. we call greg doyle off the bench. greg doyle, welcome. >> howdy. >> after they were robbed of the horrible call on monday night, the media went haywire.

i'm talking "nightly news"casts, morning shows, front pages. why was this such an explosion? >> because it was easy and because the replacement refs were easy victims. let's kick that little skinny weakling while he's down. that would be a lot of fun. let's not kick roger goodell or the regular refs. let's kick the replacement refs who were trying to do us a favor and call some games. >> it was the mistake that media just seemed to decide that there was virtually no more fun to cover than this one. >> yeah, if there's anything the media is good at is sticking their finger and putting it up the air and saying, ooh, let's go mock them, let's mock the guy who refereed the lingerie game

and let's mock the guy who had the facebook page who's a saints fan. >> you're saying you have a limbet sympathy phen the men who found themselves the object of so much national ridicule. >> yeah, i've got nothing but s for those guys. clearly weren't good enough to do it at that level, i don't say that to be mean spirited, but the fact that the media around me act like stupid school boys. here is a chance to get humor. wonder if i can throw in potty humor, too, make it doubly funny. these are human beings, doing the best they can, low profile people thrust into a high profile job and let's mock them because it is easy, i don't get that. >> is there a mean spirited streak in sports writing? i listen to it thinking it sounds like bullying people who after all are not the rich, famous, multi million dollar athletes, they're called off the

bench to blow the whistle in some football games. >> there's mean spirited stuff in sports, i won't take it except when i am doing it. we all like to be mean at times. >> it is okay for you, wait a second. i have to blow the whistle on this one. >> yeah, it is okay -- you pick your spots. if being mean to labor can i have in, urban meyer, or the toronto shortstop, be mean to those people, in al michael's words, the retired insurance salesman from des moines, don't be mean to those people. >> do you think the media furor over the blown call ratcheted up the pressure to the point they settled that and they came back this past thursday night? >> i am not an arithmetic

teacher from altoona, i can add two and two and get four. one minute the lockout is firm, in place, no reported movement at all. next moment that bizarre touchdown interception, and next thing you know, lockout is over. two plus two, it is four, like the odds on that. >> you wrote in one of your columns the nfl is in chaos. this is a multi zillion dollar business. slight overstatement perhaps? >> well, it has been -- their integrity has been totally called into question. in a sense, that's chaotic, yeah. the whole country has been watching the games, watch monday night, were prepared to watch more games if the lockout didn't end with one eye half closed, not believing anything they were seeing, that's a rather chaotic position for the nfl to be in. >> you look at all of the money sloshing around in pro-football television rights, hard to

imagine the league jeopardized that for a penny ante dispute over how much refs are paid. greg doyel, thanks for stopping by. the washington nationals on the verge of winning, three decades or more there was no baseball in washington. up next, "the new york times" this morning marking the passing of one of its own. and your taste buds have always endorsed us. so, you know what this means... this is a real win win! yoplait, it is so good. this is a real win win! hey america, even though slisa rinna is wearing the new depend silhouette briefs for charity to prove how great the fit is even under a fantastic dress. the best protection now looks, fits and feels just like underwear. we invite you to get a free sample and try one on too.

arthur sulzberger died. he expanded the times by adding sections on living, weekend, home, science which were controversial but magnets for advertising. he created a national edition, bought up other newspapers and magazines and television stations. by the time he stepped down in 1997, the company was bringing in more than $2.5 billion in revenue. he was tough when he needed to be, facing down the nixon administration by publishing the secret penalty gone papers on the vietnam war and faced criticism from his own profession after giving an op-ed to welcome sapphire who went onto win a pulitzer. his son now runs the paper and company. he was 86. media monitor is next.

time for the media monitor. a look at the hits and errors in the news business. roger simon got attention for his polical column this week because he had paul ryan reportedly using a toxic nickname for his running mate, let ryan be ryan and let the stench be the stench. suddenly you could smell that story in lots of places. >> yes. the stench. that is what paul ryan is actually calling mitt romney according to politico. >> "the new york times" columnist blogged this is bad behavior, you're supposed to wait until it is over before you

do this kind of thing. says it demonstrates the toxic press is in ryan's head, except that roger, well, made that up. it was a bit of satire, subtle enough that politico had to add an editor's note later saying some readers were confused that this was satire, which means it was too subtle and probably a bad idea. jim bell, top producer at the "today" show says matt lauer had nothing to do with the controversial decision to dump co-host ann curry. he says the move to replace her with savannah guthrie wasn't matt's call, it was bell's decision. he discussed losing ratings lead to good morning america after a 16 year run and called the "today" show a more serious program and said abc's news program is doing something else, asked if that meant going tabloid, bell said that's what i am saying. at first i thought this was a bloody parody, after all, you would think it would be a scoop when the bbc reported o